The Abduction Experience

A Dialogue In Boston
with John Mack and Budd Hopkins

Part II

By Victor Viggiani, B.A., M. Ed.


Budd Hopkins

Both men are introduced. They take their seats ceremoniously beside one another in the antique armchairs. The moderator injects pleasantries and then invites Budd Hopkins to be the first to assume the podium for introductory remarks. Hopkins rises to the occasion amidst the generous applause of an eager audience. In a statement limited to about 15 minutes Budd Hopkins begins to outline the parameters of his perception and experience with the abduction phenomenon. Hopkins is rather informal, speaking quickly yet relaxed and comfortably. His style is anecdotally spontaneous, yet convincingly direct and instructive.

For Budd Hopkins the abduction experience is the most important event in the history of humanity. The often portrayed as “good” or “bad” aliens are to Budd Hopkins neither good nor bad, but representative of a realm beyond the altruistic polemics of “good” or “bad.”

Hopkins describes three aspects which he believes characterize the alien presence in abductions. His experience with abductees (experiencers) has illustrated to him that these three aspects of the alien presence reveal the nature and purpose of the alien intervention into our reality.

First, he describes the aliens as deceptive in their operation among humans. Screen memories, that is, fabricated illusions, often portray the aliens or their agents as one thing or another. Hopkins feels these screen memories hide the true intentions, physical appearance and genuine nature of these beings. Creatures such as owls, deer or other manifestations often mask the alien identity to experiencers. Figures can change in mid stream. It may come through the eyes of the beings in episodes of staring, long intense moments of looking into the eyes of experiencers; or through some type of telepathic mind transfer. At one time, or level of experience, the beings appear to be one thing, but can change to another during the abduction. Even within the same experience, another image or screen of perception is presented to the abductee.

Hopkins feels the aliens have the ability to input images into the human brain which are deceptive and are thus, further cause to postulate that the abduction experience is, on the surface, an irrational and totally illogical experience. Hopkins believes that the aliens, whoever they are, cannot be trusted based on what they are showing us at the present time. They may be portraying themselves as one thing, but in reality, their agenda is hidden or screened from the perceptive capacity of humanity.

Secondly, Hopkins has come to believe that psychological trauma is a resultant outcome of the abduction experience. In his work with psychologists it has been found that abductees generally have low self esteem, dissociative behavior and low levels of trust in others. These, he is quick to point out, are similar to the characteristics of rape victims.

Thirdly, Hopkins suggests that our plane of reality yields evidence that the intrusive nature of the experience seems to present itself on a physical as well as paranormal level. They seem to enter our reality with craft of some sort which leave behind physical evidence of their presence. They also appear to leave marks on the bodies of those whom they take. On a paranormal level, they seem to engage in telepathic communication, move through solid walls and create feelings or perceptions in humans which are beyond the confines of “normal” perception and self awareness. Hopkins believes that in some manner, the aliens, whoever or whatever they are, represent a different paradigm of reality. They appear to exist separate from our level of consciousness.

John E. Mack, M.D.

Following these remarks the moderator invites Dr. Mack to the podium to provide his perspective on alien abduction.

Dr. Mack’s figure is subtle yet imposing. He unfurls notes onto the podium from which to speak. He begins slowly and deliberately referring to his notes. His tone and delivery attest to his academic background. In a perplexing manner he launches into a deeply synthesized analysis of his work with people who have directly encountered the abduction phenomenon.

Initially, Dr. Mack makes it clear that there really does not appear to be any deeply rooted psychological reason why people are saying what they are about their experiences with alien beings. In a humorous manner, he indicates that what is being reported about what this phenomenon “is” or “is not,” is not the investigator’s fault. “Don’t shoot the messenger,” seems to be implied by his comments.

Dr. Mack continuously stresses the idea that we must begin to ask questions about the phenomenon, not simply to find “yes” and “no” answers, but to gain a deeper understanding and develop a deeper level of curiosity about alien abductions.

Five Areas of Focus

Dr. Mack suggests five areas around which to focus our deepening appreciation for this experience.


The first of these he calls the event level. By this he means that whatever occurs is assuredly intrusive in nature and very real to experiencers, yet so reality shattering to everyone else as to be utterly unbelievable by its very nature. The trauma is real, the event seems real, yet acceptance of it as real has not yet begun to take root among the vast majority. Despite what a large number of very credible and psychologically healthy individuals are reporting, the reality of what is occurring has not yet become integrated into our “current reality.” Skepticism among the “compact majority” exist primarily because no objective proof exits beyond the human experiential reports of experiencers.


Secondly, Dr. Mack refers to the informational nature of what is being reported to him by experiencers. Concerns about ecological damage to the environment, mind to mind contact and hybrid breeding, represent the type of information which is relayed by virtually all experiencers. It appears as if the alien beings are relaying to, or putting experiencers in touch with perceptions about the state of the world, altered forms of communication and hybrid breeding, for reasons that we as yet do not understand.


Thirdly Dr. Mack alludes to the spirituality aspect of what these beings impart to experiencers. Experiencers report that in some manner, the aliens are introducing to them the need for humans to become more open to a sense of a universal Oneness, the Source, or God.

The Beings

The fourth component of Dr. Mack’s outline describes the nature of the beings themselves as they relate to experiencers. Mack has discovered that as he works with abductees they seem to develop a closer, deeper and powerful relationship with the beings. As a result of his work with experiencers, Dr. Mack does not believe the aliens are either benign or benevolent. Dr. Mack goes on to more fully explain these components in the fifth segment of his outline.


Fifth, Dr. Mack discusses the societal and scientific resistance toward the phenomenon which is clearly evident throughout society in general. General resistance is generated whenever a shift in paradigms begins to influence or alter a dominant world view. Ontology (ways of knowing or how knowledge is organized within a society) is drastically shifted when attempts are made to deal rationally with something like the alien abduction enigma. It does not fit. Acceptance of it would necessarily require a drastic alteration of our belief structures, both scientifically and socially, in order to fully integrate the notion of alien influence into our current world view. The abduction phenomenon crosses over and through the physical and spiritual. In a strange way it seems to be both physical as well as spiritual. The phenomenon appears to manifest itself in a physical way, but somehow possesses attributes of the spiritual domain. In a like manner, it has spiritual characteristics, yet it also possesses physical attributes.

Dr. Mack continues by talking about how we cannot expect to “master” this phenomenon from within our current structures of knowledge. It all comes to us from or through another reality into our own reality. Since the illusion-like quality of abductions creates such discontinuity in our normal realm of beliefs, the only way most people deal with it is to dismiss it outright, as would be the case in any situation where discontinuity and the lack of physical proof abound. Resistance also emanates from the fact that we have no language with which to describe the subtleties of what seems to be happening to experiencers, therefore, resistance is understandably substantial. Dr. Mack explains that normal language like good-evil and Gods-Devils cannot adequately describe what seems to be occurring.

Mack, it appears, remains convinced that the phenomenon is inviting us to expand our notion of reality. We are somehow being challenged to develop criteria which invites a different form of knowledge into our realm, thus expanding our ways of knowing. Dr. Mack appears to believe that this will never be proven outright and scientifically, but that these experiences will gradually evolve to gradually expand our consciousness and ways of knowing.

The Nature of the Beings

Following each outline the moderator invites both speakers to sit with him on the stage to begin an interchange or dialogue about key points of their years of observations and work among experiencers. The moderator requests more clarification on the nature of the beings and what they seem to bring to our reality.

It is quite clear that Budd Hopkins has a defined mistrust of the aliens and their motivations. He explains how he has witnessed immense trauma and how the ensuing traumatic disorder has affected the lives of many of the people with whom he has worked. He also made it clear that he is in no way interested in the supposed agenda of whoever the alien beings are or portray themselves to be.

Hopkins explains further that whatever their agenda is, it is decisively deceptive and is not to be trusted. The moral issue of aliens influencing the human spirit and our essence as human beings, can not be and should not be part of the equation. Mr. Hopkins is forceful in his defense of the uniqueness of the human spirit. Our human spirit in no way needs the intervention of deceptive beings who seek to control, implant devices and otherwise influence human beings along their evolutionary path. He reaffirms several times, and remains adamant that beings such as these who cause such trauma and who change their appearance at will in mid-stream can not be trusted or allowed to intervene in this manner. We simply cannot trust what they appear to be showing us.

Dr. Mack counters Budd Hopkins’ response by indicating that in his work he has witnessed the trauma and disorder, but that it appears to take the experiencer “somewhere else” after the experiencer has had an opportunity to deal with the fear and trauma. The trauma was, in his experience with abductees, not continuous - something else of greater value evolves. In his cross-cultural work with experiencers from different countries, he has seen how non-western cultures have dealt with the on-going experience and allowed it to evolve within themselves and their culture. The result seems to be a greater understanding of the deeper meaning behind the abduction experience.

A Pyramid of Pain

Budd Hopkins describes a vivid image which characterizes how different people integrate the abduction experience into their lives. Hopkins’ point here was that we are yet to discover how most of humanity has been touched by this phenomenon and how they have integrated it into their lives. He asked the audience to imagine a large pyramid. At the base of the pyramid were the many thousands of people who have been traumatically touched by abduction experiences. Receiving no assistance or support they have, in their misery and inability to cope, turned to substance abuse, sexual or physical abuse and even suicide. The next level in the pyramid are those fewer who are touched by the phenomenon and who suffer in solitude, not knowing what is occurring yet barely coping with day to day existence. Then there is the next level; those who are getting help and coping with the many unexplained anomalies in their lives. Then at the top of the pyramid, are the very few survivors who have somehow integrated it into their lives.

Looking around the auditorium I sensed that many present there that night identified emotionally with what Budd Hopkins was saying at that point. There were several areas of total agreement that evening, and this was definitely one of them.

Following more general dialogue which reviews their general positions, the moderator opens the floor to questions from the audience to each speaker. The questions range from the well informed inquiry, framed to sincerely advance the level of discussion, to those which focuses on needless personal narratives or attempts to pin down either speaker on validity of proof. There were several good questions dealing with dream states and how they may be influenced by alien beings. There were also several questions about ufology, government cover-up and religious concerns.


After the proceedings ended and both speakers had left the stage, a peculiar feeling lodged in my mind. “What comes next; where do we go from here?” Was I any more informed? No, not really. I had read or heard each speaker before and their positions had not drastically altered.

So, why then, drive ten hours to Boston to hear things about the possibilities of realities changing or expanding in new ways? I’d already heard or read it all before. I toyed with the question that evening as I drove back to my hotel amidst the insane Boston traffic.

I suppose the answer lay in a few puzzling areas. Could it be the simple intrigue of imagining... What if things really were as these two renowned researchers described? What if the reality we all count on from moment to moment did or could change, or was in fact inter-changeable with other realities? What would the meaning of reality be then?

It seemed to me much like watching a good classic movie, like Casablanca over and over... expecting something different to happen. Each time I watch Humphrey Bogart stand in the rain letting her go to board the plane; for an instant... for just that one split second...Greta doesn’t board the plane, but runs back to him in the rain, to stay... and yes reality is changed...yet the sun will rise tomorrow. © Victor Viggiani, B.A., M. Ed., March 1997

This article is published with the expressed written permission of Victor Viggiani for publication on

Top of Page Global-ET-Research: Victor-Viggiani-Hopkins-Mack-Alien-Abduction.jpg

Victor Viggiani

Victor Viggiani is a retired school Principal from Toronto, Ontario, Canada. He has a Bachelor of Arts Degree in Sociology and Psychology (York University Toronto Ontario Canada) and a Masters in Educational Administration and Curriculum Development (Brock University, St. Catherines, Ontario, Canada). Victor is also a College Supervisor at the Faculty of Education of Medaille College in Buffalo New York.

Victor’s research and analysis of anomalous aerial phenomenon spans over 30 years. His experience involves UFO sightings report investigation, counselling work with individuals reporting anomalous experiences, presentations and journalism in the field of ETI Disclosure issues. Extensive UFO research has been completed throughout the South Western U.S.A. in locations such as Groom Lake Nevada, Corona, Roswell, Socorro, The Very Large Array Telescope, White Sands, Los Alamos NL and Dulce in New Mexico and in South and North Eastern Australia.

His published work includes: “Area 51: A Desert Journey,” “Alien Abduction Symposium Boston Mass: A Review of Alien Abduction Dialogue Between Dr. John Mack and Budd Hopkins,” “Disclosure: A Terrestrial Imperative,” “A series of professional articles in educational journals on Student Discipline, Classroom Management, Teacher Supervision, and Curriculum Development.” He was co-organizer of the Exopolitics Toronto Symposium which featured the public emergence of former Canadian Minister of Defence, Paul Hellyer, calling for an end to the UFO cover up. His Google site is:

Z-Land Communications


Articles by Victor Viggiani:


The NORAD Briefing Document

Conscious Sedation

Abduction Dialogue in Boston: Budd Hopkins and John Mack

Budd Hopkins John-E-Mack-alien-abduction.jpg

John E. Mack, M.D. JEM.jpg

PEER is now The John E. Mack Institute Global-ET-Research: Budd-Hopkins-IF-Archived-Site-Alien-Abduction.jpg


Victor Viggiani

Victor. Viggiani, B.A., M.Ed. has researched the abduction phenomenon for over 20 years. His emphasis is support group work and individual assistance. His interest in UFO research has taken him to Quebec, Maryland, Boston, Montreal, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada and Colorado. Specific geographic locations where Mr. Viggiani has interviewed people and performed key research include Roswell, Corona, Magdelana, Soccorro, Sun Spot, Area 51, Nellis AFB and Dulce New Mexico. His research has been published in several journals and newsletters. His major concerns are:

(1) Dealing openly and honestly with experiencers,

(2) Working toward total Governmental disclosure and open dialogue about the ET presence and influence on our planet.

As an elementary school principal, Mr. Viggiani has direct involvement with children. He has come to realize through vivid testimony, that some children are involved in primary abduction experiences. He has become vitally interested in how childhood abduction experiences are manifested and the types of support and guidance that can be offered to these children and their parents. Mr. Viggiani has been in contact with Dr. Mack on the issue of abductions involving children and young adults. His Google site i

Z-Land Communications




PEER is now The John Mack Institute



Copyright © 1993-2024 Puzzle Publishing. All Rights Reserved

Disclaimer & Terms of Use